Talk:Nuts and Bolts
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Could you expand on what you mean by all the simple weapons, archaic weapons, hand guns and so forth? I've been having a look at some of the d20 modern stuff over the net, and if I'm interpruting it right, I don't like there classifications of firearm proficiencies. Hand guns seems to include anything used in one hand, be it a low powered 9mm pistol or a scorpion submachine gun. There is also a longarm proficiency, that gives skill with everything used in two hands, from a mosberg up to a AK47. That means that someone with just hand gun proficiency could use a submachine gun but not a shotgun. Does that strike anyone else as odd? Wouldn't it make more sense to split them into civilian and military firearm? In this case a military weapon is any thing with automatic or suppressive fire. Probably also heavy weapons like rocket launchers, although they might have their own group. Andy 13:42, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
One of the problems is that D20 Modern was written by Americans. This is a country where it is possible for civilians to get their hands on M16s and the like...
Simple Weapons includes unarmed attacks (including brass knuckles/knuckledusters), pistol whips, rifle butts, clubs (including extendable batons and the tonfa-style baton) and knives.
Archaic Weapons would be just about everything from the D&D list that wasn't an exotic weapon.
Exotic Melee Weapons would be just about every weapon from the D&D list that was an exotic weapon, plus the chainsaw. As with D&D this gives you just one weapon (eg Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Katana)).
Personal Firearms Proficiency included all Handguns and Longarms. Handguns was a subgroup that included all automatic pistols, revolvers and machine pistols. Longarms was a subgroup that included all rifles (bolt action, sniper and automatic), sub-machineguns and shotguns.
Exotic Firearms Proficiency included all seriously off-limits weapons like machine guns, rocket launchers and grenade launchers. As with D&D this gives you just one weapon (eg Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Heavy Machine Gun)).
Advanced Firearms Proficiency was required to use the autofire ability on any weapon. Without it you would still fire the five bullets you would fire on autofire, but would resolve the attack as normal, thus wasting four of the five bullets. A further Burst feat was required to fire bursts of fire at a single target.
Phew.
As we seem to be heading towards a more European attitude towards guns may I suggest the following. We mark some weapons as 'military'. Any person can fire such a gun, but receives a -6 penalty to hit. Someone with Personal Firearms Proficiency can fire it with a -2 to hit. To remove the last -2 to hit requires the Profession (soldier (or SWAT or some other appropriate career)) skill. The penalty is removed at a rate of 1 per 2 ranks in the skill. This has the advantage of marking some weapons out, but keeping the number of feat slots required the same. And it also makes people spend some of their skill points on a skill they should have if that's the sort of character they want. --Alex 12:18, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
- That is perhaps a little complicated. Why not just go for something simple like
- Simple Firearms: Any pistol or rifle that fires one shot at a time.
- Military Firearms: Any thing used on burst mode. Also shoulder mounted weapons like stinger missiles.
- Exotic Firearms: Includes artillary pieces, flame throwers and other stuff.
- Small melee: Anything that made be commonly used in a fight outside of a reenactment society. Mostly medium weapons
- Large Melee weapons: Mostly tools, such as sledgehammers, pickaxes, and chainsaws.
- Exotic melee weapons: All the rest.
- Andy 14:45, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
I'd mostly agree with you on the firearms, though I would keep the Burst feat I mentioned as a seperate option. I would also keep portable missile launchers in the area of Exotic Weapons, as the Military Firearms group would also be available to SWAT teams, who don't (as far as I know) generally use such things. We could also make Pistol Whip and Rifle Butt a part of the Simple Firearms group.
As for melee weapons, I don't want to get too complex for these ones, since most fights in a modern setting are going to be either shoot-outs, martial arts/brawls, or using common weapons like batons, tire irons and baseball/cricket bats. I'd maybe go with:-
- Simple/Household Weapons: Modern hand-to-hand weapons, like batons and so on, your improvised club weapons, like baseball bats and crowbars, and DIY tools like mallets, axes, and sledgehammers.
- Archaic Weapons: Ancient hand-to-hand weapons, like the whole D&D list that doesn't fit into the other groups.
- Exotic Melee Weapons: Anything we think is too nasty to fit into the other groups.
In other words, most people only need Simple/Household Weapons. Only those who for some reason actually need to use longswords or a katana actually need the Archaic and Exotic groups.--Alex 16:17, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
On a different subject I've noticed that my subdivisions of Priests are already covered by the occupations section later on. To solve this I propose the following changes...
Priest
(I don’t like the name cleric; it just sounds someone who’s here to do the record keeping…)
Class Skills Concentration, Craft (Pharmaceutical, Visual Art, Writing), Diplomacy, Knowledge (Arcana, Behavioural Sciences, Civics, Current Events, History, Popular Culture, Theology and Philosophy), Profession, Spellcraft, Treat Injury
Weapon and Armour Proficiency They get the Simple Weapon Proficiency.
Aura, Spells, Bonus Languages: As before.
Deities, Domains and Domain Spells: Pick two domains as usual but we should pump up the domain powers (and switching turning undead to a domain power for solar deities and the like) to make priests a bit more potent.
Spontaneous Casting: Pick one of your two domains. That domain’s spells become your spontaneous casts.
Miracles Each deity has a specific power that may be used by his priests. Each power is listed under the deity's description, eg. priests of the god of the internet may cast the Commune spell once a fortnight, from levels one to six, once a week from levels seven to twelve and once per day from levels thirteen upwards. To use this power the priest must be connected to the internet and be able to send a message (not bound if typing, able to speak if using voice recognition software). The replies will take a number of minutes to return equal to 21 minutes minus 1 minute per level of the priest.
Now priests don't have the great armour choice they had in D&D, because their role in society has changed. Of course if you want an armoured priest then you can use the Military occupation later on to get you that stuff. But by adding the Miracle powers we can keep them a good choice, and as an added bonus make each god unique. Even with domains a god of libraries and a god of internet could still churn out identical priests. Now they would have their own seperate functions.--Alex 12:33, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
